Posts by Franklin Massey

17

Why Does God Have an Organization?--Article in the Public Edition--Feb. 1, 2012 Watchtower!

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

i'm very surprised to see an article like this in the public edition of the watchtower.

it seems as though they are specifically trying to address the ex-jw criticisms, though of course, in their own limited way.. lies abound.

page 26: "jesus organized his followers to witness about jehovah and to make disciples in all nations.

Franklin Massey

Oh to have such a weak view of God that one believes that God NEEDS an organization to do anything.

Good point. JWs don't realize how weak their concept of God is. This may be because they are constantly reminded of how weak they are. A person who believes the warnings "Don't trust your heart," and "Don't trust your mind," will develop a complex wherein, they can't think independently without worrying that they are going to make a mistake. They will wonder, "Who can I trust?" That is where the same Organization that tells them they can't trust themselves steps in and says, "You can only trust us!"

23

"Why Love Never Fails"....Giving the talk tonight. Help?

by stillstuckcruz in

jeez....i if this was about two years ago, i could have put this talk togather lickety split.

but i'm finding it impossible because i can't bring myself to put in phrases such as "god's true people", "love motivates us to....." , etc, etc.

every sentence i add, i just want to throw up because it's all such...pish posh and falsehoods and hypocrisy.

Franklin Massey

Any ideas on how this talk could be used to open JW minds? Nothing as obvious Sir82's post, although it was spot on.

Also, no offense to the suggestions mentioned above but when terms like "loveless world" and debbie downer statistics are used, it just encourages JWs to hide in mother's shadow.

How could the subject of love be used to broaden horizons?

39

JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?

by garyneal in

i mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.

why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.

because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.

Franklin Massey

I've been out 18 months thereabouts and once the 'truth' started to unravel I was amazed how quickly it all turned to dust.

Exactly. I can hardly talk to a JW about anything relating to their beliefs anymore. I'm no longer fluent in the language.

39

JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?

by garyneal in

i mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.

why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.

because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.

Franklin Massey

JDough, I hope my point wasn't lost on you. I was asking for your response should a JW say something like that. For those of us still "in" or those who have to interact with witnesses, those types of repsonses are presented in reply to honest, critical questioning about JW doctrine. If we want to help people out of the Org, we have to be able to break up the crystallized thought process of a heavily indoctrinated mind.

28

"Flawed Faith vs. Loss of Faith"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

below is a quote from a recent thread at the channel c forum that caught my attention.

it llustrates how the exit strategy for some awakened jws must include a religious alternative.

this particular individual is particularly concerned that jw children will become godless, upon learning that wt is not the only true religion.

Franklin Massey

Condescending Christianity practiced under the delusion that by condemning others, one is somehow helping others.

I'm an atheist. But I can see how a family raised by Christian principles can be incredibly happy and productive members of society. A Christian's belief in Jesus doesn't bother me. Believe in Sky Muppets for all I care. Just don't tell me that I am destined for failure because I don't subscribe to your brand of belief.

39

JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?

by garyneal in

i mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.

why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.

because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.

Franklin Massey

JD, allow me to play JW here and reply with this:

The Organization has never been perfect, as it is comprised of imperfect people. But Jehovah and Jesus have a plan, as outlined in the Holy Scriptures, and they chose this Organization to carry it out. We don't use those symbols anymore because Holy Spirit delivers new light. JWs are always progressing and refining. I mean, the friends used to celebrate Christmas at Bethel! LOLZ! But look at us now, the happiest, most loving people on earth. Our numbers are growing! Evidently, Jehovah is blessing us and the Faithful and Discreet slave is providing spiritual food at the proper time.

39

JW Apologists, Lurkers, etc., can you prove the selection in 1919?

by garyneal in

i mean, this is the pivotal doctrine that will prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that this religion really is the one true religion.. why is this so?.

why not just read and study the bible and see that the witnesses adhere to it and therefore must be the one true religion?.

because a lot of what the witnesses say that bible says is merely their interpretation of the bible from my point of view.

Franklin Massey

Cedars is right. If you ask the average JW to explain, in detail, the doctrine surrounding the special choosing of JWs in the early 1900's, most will fumble through the details and then try to end on a positive note about Christian unity, or love, or worldwide preaching, or whatever.

As I've been fading, I've noticed that a lot of JWs don't get Watchtower doctrine. The foundations for JWs being specially chosen by God are some of the most difficult teachings for JWs to grasp. They're more inclined to point to their application of basic Christian ideas as the "proof" that they are part of the one true religion. The problem is that almost all "Christian" religions teach the same basic things. JWs are not special in trying to be nice, accepting Jesus as their savior, sharing the gospel, awaiting a special reward in the afterlife, etc. But they are constantly told that there version is superior so they buy into the whole package, whether they really understand it all or not.

If a JW is faced with the realization that some of their foundational doctrine is shaky, or false, they quickly jump to a "happy place," usually basic Christianity, to soothe their troubled mind.

They won't face the fact that they can't prove the obtuse doctrine because they like being JWs. They think its the only way.

28

"Flawed Faith vs. Loss of Faith"

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

below is a quote from a recent thread at the channel c forum that caught my attention.

it llustrates how the exit strategy for some awakened jws must include a religious alternative.

this particular individual is particularly concerned that jw children will become godless, upon learning that wt is not the only true religion.

Franklin Massey

"It is easier to adjust a believer's wrong beliefs than to claim a young agnostic/atheist from his dark place."

Sounds to me like the author is worried about some sort of Darth Vader situation happening.

45

So an old friend from the hall called me today....

by shakyground in

he said he wanted to know how i was doing and what was going on with me.

i knew that it was only a matter of time before he started asking about me not being to the hall in like 3 months and him trying to bring me back into the fold.

and in about less than a minute he started telling me about how everyone at the hall misses me and asks about me.

Franklin Massey

As New Chapter alluded to, this person probably thought they were doing the right thing. I've watched many JW group discussions on how to "reach" a person who is, by their estimation, not living up to their spiritual obligation. This friend may have rehearsed dozens of lines until they landed on the one that they thought would hit you like a splash of cold water and cause you to wake up from your spiritless slumber. This time, the friend used the deceased parent card.

Yes, it was intended to guilt you into coming back. Yes, it was low. But in the mind of your friend, it was the best chance of getting through to you. And to your friend's credit, sometimes it works. This time, back to the drawing board.

8

How is everyone?

by TimothyT in

jw
friends

iv been getting on with my life and im enjoying it!

hope you are all doing well and happy!

timmy.

Franklin Massey

Hey Tim,

I'm very glad to hear that you are happy and free you be yourself. I was looking back at our old PMs and I must say, you have come a long way this year. Cheers!

Me, I'm much better now than I was when I found JWN. To free myself of Watchtower mind control has been one the greatest decisions I have ever made.